The three candidates for Thurston County Commissioner District 5 spent nearly four hours the Thursday before the Aug. 4 primary answering questions from podcast host Tony Taylor, members of the public, and each other.
The July 30 virtual debate was livestreamed on Facebook and YouTube as part of Taylor’s “On The Record” series. Taylor previously hosted a debate between Thurston County Sheriff candidates Derek Sanders and Kevin Burton Crow, and has recorded interviews with Washington state 2nd Legislative District representative candidates Angela Taylor and Jenn Marie Strickling.
On Tuesday, one of the three Thurston County Commissioner District 5 candidates will be cut from the race.
The candidates are all vying for the seat currently held by Emily Clouse, who is wrapping up her first term and is looking to defend her seat.
Both the District 5 and District 3 seats on the Thurston County Board of Commissioners are up for election this year, but no challengers appeared to oppose incumbent District 3 Commissioner and Board President Tye Menser, who filed May 4 to retain his seat.
Clouse’s two challengers, Michelle Gipson and Nicolas Martinez-Dunning, are both sitting elected officials themselves, with Gipson serving on the North Thurston Public Schools School Board and Dunning serving on the Lacey City Council.
Clouse was first elected to the Board of County Commissioners in 2023. She faced significant public scrutiny during her first term following an investigation into her relationship with an executive aide. That investigation sparked a lawsuit that was settled by the county for $300,000, and a recall petition that was ultimately dismissed in court.
Clouse herself spoke openly about the incident in answer to a question from Taylor regarding something that she’s most proud of from her time in public office.
“My freshman year, I made a mistake, and it was very public. I learned so much from that experience, and I never left,” Clouse said, adding that she is proud of her choice to remain in office and take accountability for her actions.
“I own that accountability process. I own that mistake,” Clouse said.
Dunning took issue with Clouse calling her actions related to the relationship, investigation and settlement “a mistake.”
“That is not a mistake, and it should have resulted in the person resigning. So let's not downplay how serious that event was, because that's inappropriate,” Dunning said.
According to Clouse, Gipson was directly asked by people in her community to run for county commissioner because the 2024 scandal had made them lose their trust in Clouse.
The two, having known each other from their respective campaigns in the 2023 election cycle, reportedly sat down for coffee before Gipson announced her candidacy.
When asked by Gipson on Thursday what she would say to those who still did not trust her judgment, Clouse encouraged them to listen to interviews she has done with Taylor and with Olympia Indivisible on the 2024 scandal.
“I've talked about this a lot. I've never closed myself off to questions, to criticisms,” Clouse said.
She added that some of the same people who demanded she resign in 2024 have since had a change of heart.
“I've had those same people look me in the eye, with tears in their eyes — no joke — saying, ‘I'm so glad you didn't resign. I asked you to resign, and I'm so glad you didn't,’” Clouse said.
Aside from taking accountability for her own actions, Clouse said she has rebuilt that community trust through her work as county commissioner to promote government transparency and to advocate for her constituents.
“I make myself available to the public, and so when someone makes a mistake and you question their judgment, see if they're accessible or if they run away. And I've never run away, and that's what people can depend on from me for the next four years,” Clouse said.
Clouse and Dunning spent much of the debate butting heads over their views on various issues, including solutions to the county’s homelessness crisis, housing affordability, fiscal responsibility, whether or not to run Thurston County “like a business,” and more.
Dunning, a Marine Corps and Washington National Guard veteran, and the founder and owner of West Coast Fitness, is a self-proclaimed “moderate Democrat.
He is running on a platform of “common sense” and “people over politics,” offering what he calls an “honest approach” to governance.
“If you want someone to actually do the job from day one and not just go along with what everyone says, that represents you, that is me,” Dunning said.
Dunning started the debate by calling out his fellow candidates for reading off of written notes, calling it "completely inauthentic,” and later pushed Clouse to publicly defend the more controversial views of the Democratic Socialists of America.
Clouse, on the other hand, accepted the title of “socialist” — though she disputed the claim that she agreed with every party line.
Clouse filed as a Democrat and is a pledged “pro-Democracy” candidate. She also declares in her candidate statements and on her candidate website that she is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.
“That's an organization I belong to, and I'm proud of that because we're working to build coalitions that actually take care of people,” Clouse said. “We want people’s needs to be met.”
Clouse said her priorities for her next term are budget transparency and to continue delivering on the promises she made ahead of her first term, specifically regarding environmental stewardship, housing for all, responsible government and civic access.
Gipson, also a Democrat, largely agreed with Clouse’s opinions about the issues facing Thurston County, but argued that she was a more trusted and level-headed option than her fellow candidates.
“I don't believe leadership is about making yourself the center of every decision. It's about keeping the community at the center of every decision, and so if you elect me, I'll be fair and a focused and thoughtful commissioner who builds trust and works collaboratively,” Gipson said.
Responding to public criticism that she is “quiet” and is not as polished in debates as her fellow candidates, Gipson said, “Do not mistake quiet for passive. It means I’m listening.”
Gipson is running on a platform of addressing housing affordability, supporting public schools, responsible community growth, environmental stewardship and transparent government.
Like he did with the Thurston County Sheriff’s Debate on July 11, Taylor asked all three candidates to end the prepared questions section of Tuesday’s commissioner candidate debate by complimenting each other.
Clouse complimented Gipson’s willingness to step up and her commitment to listening to the community and learning the county policies and systems.
“If you are elected, you would totally have my support,” Clouse told Gipson.
She thanked Dunning for asking “really hard questions that need to be answered,” and expressed her willingness to find those answers.
“You ask questions that demand answers, and I would like to try to answer those together,” she said.
Gipson expressed admiration for both Clouse and Dunning being as passionate as they are about serving their communities.
“You’ve got fire and you’ve got passion, and I appreciate that about you,” she said to both candidates.
Dunning told Gipson that he thought she was “a truly genuine person and extraordinarily kind,” and said that he and Clouse “get along way better than I think people think.”
While they disagree on politics, Dunning said that he admires Clouse as a person and respects her for sticking up for her beliefs.
“She really is fighting for what she thinks is right, and I admire that. I just have differences in policy. That’s okay. And whatever voters want in the end, I’m okay with that too,” Dunning said.
The full debate can be viewed online at https://tinyurl.com/2kxb8trp
Ballots for the Aug. 4 primary are due by 8 p.m. on election night. Voters turning in their ballots this weekend through election day are asked to use an official ballot drop box rather than going through the mail to avoid complications, but ballots postmarked by 8 p.m. Aug. 4 will be accepted.
Voters who need to register to vote, update your address, obtain a ballot, need an accessible voting device or or need help accessing information are asked to go to one of Thurston County’s two voting centers:
Both voting centers are open 8 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday up through Aug. 3, and will be open 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. on Aug. 4.
For more information, visit the Elections Division website at https://tinyurl.com/mryhxtjj
